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User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87581]

Sat, 02 May 2020 03:32

StudioSLC
Messages: 3
Registered: March 2020
Location: France

Junior Member

Hello,
I'm looking for testimonials and advice from people who use 3D MIO with a control surface.
I will try in English... not easy for French.

In a studio that has 6 recording rooms for simultaneous recording, I just installed 4 UNL-8 3D. So 32 inputs + click + playback from DAW etc.

I send individual feedback on 6 Aux connected to 6 headphone amplifiers. And I control these Aux with a 7th headphone amplifier, mine.

I would like to have a control surface serving as a return console. I would like it to allow me, in the simplest and fastest way possible, to manage return circuits at the request of musicians, without losing control of my DAW (Digital Perfomer), which I will therefore control with keyboard and mouse .

Some control surfaces have 8 faders, others 16 etc.
What I wouldn't like is having to do a lot of clicks on the control surface to be able to just turn up the volume of the HH on the return of the guitarist who asks me for example.

I have never touched a control surface. So I have a very poor apprehension of what is good or bad compared to my need.

For example, the 16-track Presonus Faderport has transport controls. I'm not sure if I'm using it on my DAW.

The Avid Artist seems simpler to me, but it only has 8 tracks. So 4 pages to turn to set strip 30 for example.

Is my wish utopian? Is it better to manage my DAW with a control surface and keep my hand (mouse) on the MIO during recording sessions?

Do you have feedback?

Thank you

Christophe
studio-slc.com

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87582 is a reply to message #87581]

Sat, 02 May 2020 19:05

wango
Messages: 18
Registered: November 2012
Location: France

Junior Member

Hi Cristophe,

With what you have in mind, you'd need the MCU pro and 3 extenders
or something similar (mackie protocol) so you can have direct access to the 32 inputs of the ULN8's
with control over fader, mute/solo, record (record panel), pan, polarity invert, input gain and aux send with panning.
You can flip the faders and would have instant access to the aux sends on the faders and the panning for headphone feeds.
When the MCU pro controls the MIO console, it's always "active" in foreground so you can work in DP with your mouse and
move faders in MIO console simultaneously. Of course this would also be true if you'd do it the opposite way.

Do a search on youtube for Mike Crehore. He made some MIO tutorials explaining how he sets up the 3d console. As a forum member
you might already have seen them. Especially part 3 and 4 can be of interest.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Ab van Goor

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87585 is a reply to message #87582]

Mon, 04 May 2020 00:41

StudioSLC
Messages: 3
Registered: March 2020
Location: France

Junior Member

Thanks Ad for this review. Yes it would be a great solution, but it would take up a lot of space and be quite expensive.
I hope there are Avid Artist and Faderport 16 users on this forum. I would very much like to have their feedback.
Best regards,
Christophe

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87889 is a reply to message #87581]

Wed, 03 February 2021 04:22

pbaudinat
Messages: 50
Registered: January 2012
Location: France

Member

Hi Christophe,
get any MCU (Mackie control)8 tracks control surface, then use it in the MIO very simply :

- create one bank of 8 track by musician monitor
- chose the inputs and eventually ad some plugin
- place them on left in your console and ad some colors
- move from one bank to another with your control surface .

The only big issue is that nothing on the screen lets you know on which bank you are.
Maybe in 2037 Smile

))
It will also use kinda more ressources of the DSP .

I used 4 Korg Nanokontrols under MIO 2D but MIO 3D still doesn't work with more than one control surface .
I wish it will change .
I wish MIO 3D will keep its promises one day but we are far far away from a comfortable workflow .
Not even "undo" function after 3 years of beta testing !

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87890 is a reply to message #87889]

Wed, 03 February 2021 05:09

bj
Messages: 638
Registered: July 2011

Senior Member
Administrator

3d supports Mackie control control surfaces at the same level as 2d did (actually it has more support).

Why do you think you cannot connect multiple surfaces?

Same with EuControl surfaces - it fully supports multiple EuControl surfaces (at least to the extent that EuCon does).

Have you filed a feature request for indication of the mapping between control surface and UI on screen (e.g. with how you would like to see that happen)? 3d has more indication of the active mapping than 2d had, but I am sure that it could be improved further,

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87891 is a reply to message #87890]

Wed, 03 February 2021 05:16

bj
Messages: 638
Registered: July 2011

Senior Member
Administrator

@StudioSLC,

FaderPort 16 will show up as a MCU + MC extender unit. So you can simply assign those to the Primary Controller and Fader Pack 1 in the MIOConsole3d Control Surface prefs and all 16 fader will map on to the mixer.

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87892 is a reply to message #87890]

Wed, 03 February 2021 08:31

pbaudinat
Messages: 50
Registered: January 2012
Location: France

Member

I plugged the 4 Korg Nanokontrols I was using with MIO 2D but only one MCU is recognized by MIO 3D .
Try it and you'll encounter that issue .

I wonder why MH has worked on that miserable 2d zone DAW instead of improving the mixer and make it reliable .
We really don't care about your DAW because we don't buy your products for it .

How can I work fast with no "UNDO" ?
I bought my ULN8s 3 years and it's still missing the very basic features .
Hard to believe from MH .

[Updated on: Wed, 03 February 2021 08:40]

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87894 is a reply to message #87892]

Wed, 03 February 2021 15:47

bj
Messages: 638
Registered: July 2011

Senior Member
Administrator

What do you mean "only one is recognized?" Only one shows up in the MIDI popup menu, or do you mean something else. I have tested multiple Mackie Control units and multiple X-touch units and it definitely works. I don't have the Korg nanokontrol, so there may be something specific to that device that is causing the problem that you are seeing. This is the first time I have heard of this problem from anyone; there is no bug report about it. Perhaps you can file a bug report with more detalis, or al least provide a screen shot of what you are talking about. Again, the Console supports up to 4 MCP units and this works. There may be something in the MIDI layer that is preventing you from actually selecting the additional units.

As far as the rest of your comments go,
(a) there is no need to be rude
(b) Session was part of providing functionality that was present in 2d - if it does not help you with your work, don't use it;
(c) MIO an interface and a mixer; there is no implied basic requirement for Undo; its a nice to have, but certainly not core to the basic functionality. I mean, how do people work fast with Analog mixers with no Undo? Why would anyone use one?

Undo and boot states are coming. What other "very basic features" do you think are still missing (hint: the best way to make sure that they get implemented is to file Feature requests via the Help menu in MIOConsole)?

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87896 is a reply to message #87894]

Wed, 03 February 2021 18:00

pbaudinat
Messages: 50
Registered: January 2012
Location: France

Member

You're right.
Sorry, I'm too rude and you guys did a great job even if the midi control is still very limited .
I'm upset with those Korg NanoKontrols which are all seen as the same controller and I'll try the Mackie mode with something else .

[Updated on: Wed, 03 February 2021 18:02]

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87897 is a reply to message #87896]

Wed, 03 February 2021 18:12

bj
Messages: 638
Registered: July 2011

Senior Member
Administrator

So you are saying that only one of the Korg units shows up in the popup menu?

So, we changed the way we deal with MIDI in 3d (from 2d). In 2d we used CoreMidi directly. In 3d we are using a crossplatform MIDI layer (for portablitity to Windows). The MIDI layer identifies devices by name. Its possible if all the devices are coming up with the same name, that the MIDI layer is treating them all as one device.

If this is the case, it may be possible to resolve the issue by going to the MIDI window in Audio MIDI Setup and renaming 3 of the Nanocontrols so that each of the devices has a distinct name. If that doesn't resolve the issue, let me know and I will investigate the handling of the MIDI devices in more detail.

It may be that it has worked fine for us in our tests because each of the devices has a different name in CoreMIDI.

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87898 is a reply to message #87897]

Wed, 03 February 2021 19:18

pbaudinat
Messages: 50
Registered: January 2012
Location: France

Member

Wow !
It was that easy .
Thank you bj .

The order is only reversed : 1 to 4 packs from right to left instead of left to right in MIO 2D .
I can deal with it Smile

I will tell my frog friend Christophe it works !

Thanks a lot .
Let me apologize one more time for the unkind words I had .

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[Updated on: Wed, 03 February 2021 20:18]

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Re: User experience feedback from control surfaces [message #87899 is a reply to message #87898]

Thu, 04 February 2021 01:17

StudioSLC
Messages: 3
Registered: March 2020
Location: France

Junior Member

pbaudinat wrote on Thu, 04 February 2021 01:18

I will tell my frog friend Christophe it works !

Hi Pierre,
Thank you very much. My question dates from last year Pierre. I have since bought a pro MCU that works fine.

(one more thing, could you tell me what is a "frog fiend" ? In french please)
Best regards,
Christophe

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