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ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88141] Thu, 28 October 2021 16:55 Go to next message
tompisa is currently offline  tompisa
Messages: 81
Registered: June 2012
Location: Germany
Member
Hello,
I have a question about the new ULN-8 MkIV. What exactly is different here compared to a ULN-8 3 and could this be described a little more specifically ?
I'm currently about to buy another (used) ULN-8, however after reading the MH news this week I'm of course also curious about the new MkIV . Therefore I am caught in the middle concering my plan to buy a used ULN-8 3D. I simply don´t know if it's worth waiting for the MkIV or just buying the used 3D one. Introductory price for the MkIV looks pretty attractive but I don´t know how long I would need to wait before I can get an MkIV here in Europe.
@BJ can you please give some more technical details ? I would be most interested to hear about preamp section and ,I wouldn´t expect so , if you made converters related changes to the ADDA sections. Appreciate your help
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88142 is a reply to message #88141] Thu, 28 October 2021 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
The mkIV has a new analog board; this is the line level section, the outputs, sends, A/D, D/A and headphones.

In addition, the mkIV includes a relay mute for all the analog outputs (which is helpful if you are using the unit as a Monitor Controller). We will make a separate mute upgrade available for existing ULN-8 3d and LIO-8 3d units as soon as the next run of mute boards is available.

The Mic Pres are unchanged from the ULN-8 3d.
The 3d Card is unchanged from the previous 3d units.

The new analog board uses substantially less power, has lower converter latency, and the analog levels are fully calibrated out of the box on the mkIV (this requires some trimming on the previous generation).

There will be a an upgrade from the previous generation units to mkIV in the future, when we have the next production run of boards in stock.

Hope this helps!
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88143 is a reply to message #88142] Thu, 28 October 2021 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
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Just to clarify:

The A/D converters and the D/A converters as well as the surrounding analog support circuits are all new.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88144 is a reply to message #88143] Thu, 28 October 2021 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tompisa is currently offline  tompisa
Messages: 81
Registered: June 2012
Location: Germany
Member
thanks BJ, this is very very helpful 👍 And it's wonderful to hear that we ULN8 and LIO8 users can even upgrade the new boards later next year.
And can you tell maybe which AKMs or Cirrus Logics or other converters were chosen for the new AD and DAC sections ? I would love to know.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88168 is a reply to message #88144] Sat, 27 November 2021 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WillGorlander is currently offline  WillGorlander
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Registered: November 2021
Location: Vancvouer
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It would be great if someone could do an A/B recording of both units to hear the difference with the new MKIV. Smile
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88201 is a reply to message #88168] Thu, 27 January 2022 05:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marzio is currently offline  Marzio
Messages: 5
Registered: August 2019
Location: Italy
Junior Member
@bj what about SCP (usb i/o sidecar)? Will just be working on the new IV ones?
Is this feature already implemented on the standard 3D interfaces or is the upgrade you wrote above needed to get this in the future?
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88220 is a reply to message #88201] Sun, 13 February 2022 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tompisa is currently offline  tompisa
Messages: 81
Registered: June 2012
Location: Germany
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@BJ , quick question,
are the powersupplies of original 2D/3D ULN-8 compatible with the new MKIV ?

[Updated on: Fri, 25 February 2022 17:45]

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Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88332 is a reply to message #88141] Sat, 27 August 2022 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
esencia
Messages: 6
Registered: August 2018
Junior Member
I've just upgraded my two ULN8 and LIO8p to new mkiv. I did the procedure following the instructions of the video and I think that everything was ok.
The first power on was without issues and I hear the relays for the first time.

But I have two questions. one about the supposed reduced round trip latency.
I've checked under logic and I'm having same values than I have before the mkIV.. 11,6ms roundtrip latency with 128 buffer size using USB. Using MHLINK it's 15ms with 128 buffer.
Why and I getting same values? I did not understand something correctly about the way new speed is translated to this?

Another thing is about Relays. I read that mute relays are just for the analog outputs. But I was not able to hear any relay anymore muting any channel with analog output or monitor controller using analog output as main output. When I click on Mute it gets muted but there is no relay sound on it.

Is it necessary to install another updated driver or software?
(currently I'm having pb12-50 v2.1.02 driver

thanks!!
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88333 is a reply to message #88332] Sun, 28 August 2022 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
esencia wrote on Sat, 27 August 2022 17:32
But I have two questions. one about the supposed reduced round trip latency.
I've checked under logic and I'm having same values than I have before the mkIV.. 11,6ms roundtrip latency with 128 buffer size using USB. Using MHLINK it's 15ms with 128 buffer. Why and I getting same values? I did not understand something correctly about the way new speed is translated to this?


You need a new driver for the reported latency to change. But the actual latency has been reduced. The new converters will have the effect of reducing the latency by about 2.5ms @ 1x rates. The new driver will also reduce the the latency further for most users.

Quote:

Another thing is about Relays. I read that mute relays are just for the analog outputs. But I was not able to hear any relay anymore muting any channel with analog output or monitor controller using analog output as main output. When I click on Mute it gets muted but there is no relay sound on it.


The relays don't mute per-channel; they mute all the output channels simultaneously when the system is unable to exert control over the signal that will be sent to the outputs (e.g. on power up, power down, and during sample rate changes).

Quote:

Is it necessary to install another updated driver or software?
(currently I'm having pb12-50 v2.1.02 driver)


See above; there will be a new software release that updates the driver. However, pb12-50 works properly with mkIV.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88334 is a reply to message #88220] Sun, 28 August 2022 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
tompisa wrote on Sun, 13 February 2022 17:33
@BJ , quick question,
are the powersupplies of original 2D/3D ULN-8 compatible with the new MKIV ?


Sorry; I missed this one when it was first posted.

Yes - the old PS are compatible.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88335 is a reply to message #88201] Sun, 28 August 2022 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
Marzio wrote on Thu, 27 January 2022 05:52
@bj what about SCP (usb i/o sidecar)? Will just be working on the new IV ones?
Is this feature already implemented on the standard 3D interfaces or is the upgrade you wrote above needed to get this in the future?


Sorry; I missed this one when it was first posted.

SCP works on all 3d Card-based units; it will continue to work with units that have mkIV analog boards.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88336 is a reply to message #88144] Sun, 28 August 2022 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
tompisa wrote on Thu, 28 October 2021 17:35
thanks BJ, this is very very helpful 👍 And it's wonderful to hear that we ULN8 and LIO8 users can even upgrade the new boards later next year.
And can you tell maybe which AKMs or Cirrus Logics or other converters were chosen for the new AD and DAC sections ? I would love to know.


Sorry; I missed this one when it was first posted.

The converters are based on TI/Burr Brown with a custom analog and digital filter implementation.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88337 is a reply to message #88144] Sun, 28 August 2022 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
tompisa wrote on Thu, 28 October 2021 17:35
thanks BJ, this is very very helpful 👍 And it's wonderful to hear that we ULN8 and LIO8 users can even upgrade the new boards later next year.
And can you tell maybe which AKMs or Cirrus Logics or other converters were chosen for the new AD and DAC sections ? I would love to know.


Sorry; I missed this one when it was first posted.

The converters are based on TI/Burr Brown with a custom analog and digital filter implementation.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88338 is a reply to message #88144] Sun, 28 August 2022 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
tompisa wrote on Thu, 28 October 2021 17:35

And can you tell maybe which AKMs or Cirrus Logics or other converters were chosen for the new AD and DAC sections ? I would love to know.


Sorry; I missed this one when it was first posted.

The converters are based on TI/Burr Brown with a custom analog and digital filter implementation.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88339 is a reply to message #88333] Sun, 28 August 2022 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
esencia
Messages: 6
Registered: August 2018
Junior Member
Thank you BJ, understood. Smile

Do you have some estimation about the availability of the new drivers/sw?

bj wrote on Sun, 28 August 2022 15:54
esencia wrote on Sat, 27 August 2022 17:32
But I have two questions. one about the supposed reduced round trip latency.
I've checked under logic and I'm having same values than I have before the mkIV.. 11,6ms roundtrip latency with 128 buffer size using USB. Using MHLINK it's 15ms with 128 buffer. Why and I getting same values? I did not understand something correctly about the way new speed is translated to this?


You need a new driver for the reported latency to change. But the actual latency has been reduced. The new converters will have the effect of reducing the latency by about 2.5ms @ 1x rates. The new driver will also reduce the the latency further for most users.

Quote:

Another thing is about Relays. I read that mute relays are just for the analog outputs. But I was not able to hear any relay anymore muting any channel with analog output or monitor controller using analog output as main output. When I click on Mute it gets muted but there is no relay sound on it.


The relays don't mute per-channel; they mute all the output channels simultaneously when the system is unable to exert control over the signal that will be sent to the outputs (e.g. on power up, power down, and during sample rate changes).

Quote:

Is it necessary to install another updated driver or software?
(currently I'm having pb12-50 v2.1.02 driver)


See above; there will be a new software release that updates the driver. However, pb12-50 works properly with mkIV.

Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88340 is a reply to message #88339] Sun, 28 August 2022 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
Pretty soon; we are just fixing up some small issues.
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88342 is a reply to message #88141] Sun, 04 September 2022 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
preeves85 is currently offline  preeves85
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2022
Junior Member
Hey Guys,

So far have been incredibly impressed with the unit, especially coming from using protools only hardware. Im sure this is something super simple that I am doing wrong, but am struggling to get the sidecar to show up on Mac, sometimes it does show and other times it doesn't in the Mac Audio Devices, am on a Metric Halo3d ULN-8.

Thanks in advance

Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88343 is a reply to message #88342] Mon, 05 September 2022 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
What do you mean by "Sidecar" in this case?
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88344 is a reply to message #88343] Mon, 05 September 2022 02:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
preeves85 is currently offline  preeves85
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2022
Junior Member
Hey,

Thanks for your response. Basically, when setting the unit up initially I was able to select the ULN in my audio devices, it has since stopped showing up and only the MHlink Audio can be seen in my audio devices.

Thanks
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88345 is a reply to message #88344] Mon, 05 September 2022 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
So you mean that it shows up as a CoreAudio device via MHLink, but not via USB?
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88346 is a reply to message #88345] Tue, 06 September 2022 01:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
preeves85 is currently offline  preeves85
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2022
Junior Member
Hey BJ,

Yea, that is correct. I have had it show up when first setting it up and on occasion it shows after rebooting through Utilites.

Thanks
Paul
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88347 is a reply to message #88346] Tue, 06 September 2022 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 599
Registered: July 2011
Senior Member
I think you should open a support ticket https://mhsecure.com/support
Re: ULN-8 Mk IV questions [message #88361 is a reply to message #88347] Thu, 29 September 2022 10:26 Go to previous message
linetta4 is currently offline  linetta4
Messages: 1
Registered: September 2022
Location: NYC USA
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